Concerns About Ayurvedic Treatment Ingredients for CKD Stage 5 - #46168

Hello, I​‍​‌‍​‍‌​‍​‌‍​‍‌ really do understand the point you are making. It is a normal thing, I think, to become very worried if you read a lot of alarming things on the network regarding the situation that someone has stage 5 chronic kidney disease. I would like to explain it very calmly and still from a scientific point of view, in Ayurveda, so that you can decide what is best for you.

YOUR CONCERN – Summary

Diagnosed with stage 5 CKD Started Ayurvedic treatment 1–4 weeks ago The medicines are: Tribulus terrestris (Gokshura) Solanum surattense (Kantakari)

According to Google search these herbs “damage kidneys” No new symptoms have appeared till now Looking for safety and an explanation of it

FIRST AND FOREMOST POINT (Very Important)

Information found on Google is NOT based on the context Most of the warnings that one can find on the net refer to. –High-dose extracts –Unpurified parts of a raw plant –Self-medication –Animal toxicity experiments

Ayurveda follows the principle of using the processed, low-dose, and formulation-based method, which is quite different.

EXPLANATION BY AYURVEDA FOR THE TWO HERBS

1. Tribulus terrestris (Gokshura) Ayurvedic View Classical Mutravirechaniya & Mutrala Dravya Used in: Chronic kidney disease Urinary obstruction Oedema Reduced urine output

✔️ Found in Charaka & Sushruta Samhita

How it is helpful in CKD –By improving renal microcirculation –Decreases Vata-caused dryness and fibrosis –Supports residual kidney function –Works as a urine flow helper, not as a forceful diuretic

Reasons why Google labels it as harmful –High-dose steroidal saponins –Usage of bodybuilding supplements –Long-term, unsupervised intake

👉 The Ayurvedic CKD formulation contains very small, balanced doses, and is often mixed with cooling and protective herbs.

2. Solanum surattense (Kantakari) Ayurvedic View Mainly it is used to: Reduce inflammation Clear Aama (toxins) Support fluid metabolism It also is a part of the Dashamoola group

Why it is used in CKD –By helping to reduce chronic inflammation –Supports detoxification of the whole body –Prevents the secondary conditions (fluid retention, shortness of breath)

Reason why Google flag it –Raw plant toxicity –Alkaloids present in unprocessed form –Big doses or crude extracts

👉 In Ayurveda, only the processed root or fruit in very small is used—never the raw one.

IMPORTANT AYURVEDIC PRINCIPLE THAT YOU SHOULD KNOW

“The dose makes the poison, and the processing makes the medicine.” Even water can be harmful in CKD if not regulated. Likewise, herbs are only safe when used properly.

WHEN THESE HERBS CAN BE RISKY

⚠️ Only if: They are given in high doses Given as a single herb therapy If not adjusted for creatinine, urine output, potassium A patient self-medicates without a doctor’s supervision

WHAT YOU SHOULD DO NOW (VERY IMPORTANT)

Company / Doctor to ask: Exact dose per tablet Processing method (Shodhana) Whether formulation is CKD-stage specific Regular Monitoring Every 3–4 weeks: Serum Creatinine Urea Potassium Urine output Blood pressure

Warning signs – STOP & REPORT if Sudden drop in urine Nausea, vomiting New swelling Sudden fatigue

REALITY OF CKD - STAGE 5

Ayurveda is not capable of regenerating kidneys But it can slow down the progression, alleviate the symptoms, and better the quality of life The ultimate goal is stability, not a miraculous reversal

MY VIEW

✔️ If these herbs are used properly, then they are NOT harmful to the kidneys ✔️ They are classically considered as remedies for renal disorders ✔️ Fear arises from ​‍​‌‍​‍‌​‍​‌‍​‍‌misuse

Warm Regards Dr Snehal Vidhate

Hello, Thank you for sharing your concern.

Regarding your CKD stage 5 treatment and the inclusion of Tribulus terrestris (Gokshura) and Solanum surattense (Kantakari / Kantkari type plants):

In classical Ayurveda, Gokshura is often used for urinary tract support, mild diuretic effect, and reproductive health.

Solanum species are sometimes used for respiratory and urinary issues, and in small doses are thought to support kidney and bladder function in traditional texts.

⚠️ Modern evidence caution:

Both herbs can be nephrotoxic in high doses or with prolonged use, especially in advanced CKD (stage 5).

Scientific studies and case reports show potential kidney stress, increased creatinine, or electrolyte imbalance if used unsupervised.

Important points:

1. In CKD stage 5, kidney function is severely compromised. Even small nephrotoxic effects can be dangerous. 2. Herbal medicines should be supervised by a nephrologist and experienced Ayurvedic doctor. 3. If you are already on dialysis or medications, these herbs can interact or worsen kidney function.

🔎 Recommended Action 1. Stop these herbs temporarily until reviewed by your nephrologist. 2. Check kidney function immediately: Serum creatinine, eGFR, BUN, electrolytes 3. Consult a qualified Ayurvedic doctor who treats CKD patients specifically. They may suggest:

Safe kidney-supporting herbs like Punarnava, Guduchi, Gokshura (low dose with supervision), Varuna

Avoid herbs with possible nephrotoxicity

⚠️ Safety Advice

Do not self-administer Tribulus terrestris or Solanum surattense in CKD stage 5.

Always combine Ayurveda with conventional CKD care.

Report any swelling, reduced urine, or fatigue immediately.

✨ While these herbs have traditional uses, in advanced CKD they may harm kidneys. Only a specialist Ayurvedic physician for CKD can safely tailor your therapy. Regular monitoring is essential.

With careful guidance, Ayurveda can still support CKD safely, but these particular herbs need caution or avoidance.

Warm regards, Dr. Sumi MS(Ayu)

Thank you for contacting Ask Ayurveda

I can understand why this question has alt created fear and confusion in your mind, especially when you are dealing with kidney issues and through Google it says opposite to what a doctor has prescribed, it naturally creates doubt.

In Ayurveda, usually medicine effect depends upon dose, processing, combination, stage of disease, and the person’s digestion and strength. Google usually says about isolated compounds, animal studies, overdose, or misuse,but not about classical usage.

Tribulus terrestris, which is called as Gokshura, is actually one of the most commonly used herbs for the urinary system and renal system in Ayurveda. In classical texts it is mentioned as mutrala that means it supports urine flow, reduces burning, and eases pressure in the urinary tract and as shothahara, which means it helps in reducing swelling.

gokshura is often used to support filtration, reduce irritation, and help smooth urine flow in early and moderate stages. In very advanced CKD, especially stage 5, the intention is different. The aim is not to force the kidneys to work harder, but to reduce irritation, dryness, and secondary urinary discomfort and usually as part of a compound formulation, it does not stimulate the kidney aggressively. It works more on soothing the urinary pathways and balancing vata and pitta around the system.

when Gokshura is taken in high doses, for bodybuilding supplements, or as alcohol extracts without proper supervision, it may cause side effects Ayurveda does not use it in that crude way, especially not in serious kidney disease.

Solanum surattense, which is known as Kantakari. This herb also creates confusion because people associate it with strong action. Kantakari belongs to the Dashamoola group and is primarily used to balance vata and kapha. It helps to reduce inflammation, stiffness, fluid congestion, and obstruction ,In kidney disease, there is vata imbalance,dryness, muscle wasting, breathlessness, stiffness, and fatigue. Kantakari is sometimes used in very small amounts to address these systemic imbalances rather than directly acting on the kidney.

Again, the problem is not the herb itself. The problem is dose, duration, and context.

Ayurveda does not see the kidney as a single organ instead it concentrates on whole body, circulation, digestion, tissues, and excretory system together. When a formulation includes Kantakari, it is often to manage associated symptoms like fluid imbalance, heaviness, breathing discomfort, or systemic Many Ayurvedic companies use classical formulations where these herbs are present in very small proportions. The label may list them, but the actual quantity per tablet or dose can be quite low.

Since you mentioned that you have been on the treatment for less than a month and you have not noticed any change, positive or negative, that itself tells something. If these herbs were damaging your kidneys, you would have noticed worsening symptoms like discomfort, changes in urine or abnormal lab reports.

In advanced kidney disease, the most important factors are digestion, hydration balance, electrolyte stability, and avoiding anything that creates excess load on metabolism. Some Ayurvedic doctors continue mild supportive herbs to maintain comfort, appetite, bowel movement, and sleep, not to reverse kidney damage. And some focus on diet, routine, and reduction in symptoms Both approaches are right depending on the individual.

Your concern is valid. A good Ayurvedic doctor should be able to explain why a medicine is given and what the expected role is. If the company or practitioner has not explained this to you, it is okay for you to ask them directly. Ask them what is the intention of Gokshura and Kantakari in your case. Ask whether the dose has been adjusted for stage 5.

Google does not explain that kidney damage warnings often come from studies where herbs are taken in isolation, in high concentration, or combined other nephrotoxic substances. Ayurveda almost never uses herbs in isolation. It uses combinations that balance each other. A herb that is heating or stimulating is paired with cooling or soothing agents.

In CKD stage 5, herbs must be used cautiously. If you get symptoms like nausea, vomiting, decreased urine output, fatigue, burning, sensation or swelling after starting a medicine,stop it and review with nephrologist

Diet and routine are important than medicines at this stage. Simple easily digestible food, avoid excess protein load, avoid dehydration, maintain bowel regularity, and maintain mental calmness

🌱 Why Tribulus terrestris (Gokshura) is used in Ayurveda - In Ayurveda, Gokshura is considered a Mutrala (diuretic) and Rasayana (rejuvenative). - It is traditionally prescribed for urinary tract health, kidney filtration, and reducing swelling.

🌿 Why Solanum surattense (Kantakari) is used - Kantakari is part of the Dashamoola group of herbs. - It is known for reducing inflammation, fluid retention, and Kapha-related congestion. - In CKD, it may be included to help with fluid balance and respiratory comfort, not directly to “heal” kidneys but to support overall system balance. - Again, safety depends on dose, preparation, and monitoring.

Ayurvedic medicines: 1.Gokshuradi Guggulu 2 tab twice daily with water after meals 2.Chandraprabha Vati 2 tab twice daily with water after meals 3.Punarnavadi Kashayam 15 ml decoction + 45 ml warm water, twice daily 4.Varunadi Kashayam 15 ml decoction + 45 ml warm water, twice daily

🥗 Lifestyle & Diet - Low protein diet: focus on moong dal, rice, cooked vegetables. - Avoid: excess salt, fried foods, packaged snacks, red meat. - Hydration: sip warm water, avoid cold drinks. - Yoga: Vajrasana after meals, Anulom-Vilom for stress relief. - Sleep: early bedtime, oil massage on feet with sesame oil.

Tribbulus terrestris is a herb, and cannot damage kidney.In fact it’s a medicine to treat kidney problems. It is required to know it’s purity ,and purification process and also appropriate dosage as per body. Medicine taken under these circumstances can never have its side effects. Solanum surratense is also herbal, and given to reduce inflammation. Google gives vast information, which information to be accepted should be discussed with concerned expert,and filter out the information that is not applicable.

In the context of Ayurveda and chronic kidney disease (CKD) stage 5, the inclusion of Tribulus terrestris and Solanum surattense might initially seem counterintuitive especially if you find contradicting information online. However, Ayurveda often emphasizes the importance of using whole plant formulations, believing that when used in the correct proportion and prepared according to traditional methods, herbs have a synergistic effect that can bring balance to the body’s doshas even in cases of chronic illness.

Tribulus terrestris, known as Gokshura in Ayurveda, is frequently used because of its diuretic properties, which can help in managing fluid, and reduce edema—a common issue in CKD. Additionally, it supports the urinary system and helps rejuvenate the urinary tract. Key consideration is dosage, as excess can strain kidneys. Solanum surattense or Kantakari, often used for respiratory support, but in Ayurveda, it’s sometimes included in formulations for its role in aiding fluid metabolism, which indirectly benefits kidney function.

However, with stage 5 CKD, kidney function is severely compromised, and it’s crucial that any treatment plan is coordinated closely with your healthcare provider. The delicate state of your kidneys might not tolerate certain treatment that can be suitable for others with different health profiles or stages of kidney disease. It’s important to adhere to well-considered dosages and use these herbs under the guidance of a trained Ayurvedic practitioner, who can tailor treatments to your body’s current condition and constitution.

Additionally, always ensure that any Ayurvedic treatment is part of a comprehensive care regimen, including regular monitoring and input from nephrologists or healthcare professionals skilled in kidney health. I strongly advise consulting with them before continuing with any herbal regimen, to preventing potential harm and to ensure it complements any ongoing medical treatment.

In Ayurveda: Gokshura (Tribulus terrestris) is the top herb for kidney health – mild diuretic, improves urine flow, reduces swelling, protects residual kidney function in CKD (used in formulas like Gokshuradi Guggulu). Low processed doses are safe & beneficial.

Kantakari (Solanum surattense) – anti-inflammatory, supports fluid balance, part of Dashamoola – safe in balanced CKD formulas.

These are standard in Ayurvedic CKD protocols to reduce fluid retention, inflammation & support remaining kidney function – not to damage kidneys. Problems on Google are from impure/high-dose supplements, not proper Ayurvedic use.

Continue the treatment – 1 week is too early to see creatinine change (fluctuation normal). Repeat test after 4–6 weeks.

Ensure medicines are from reputed company – pure & processed properly.

Monitor creatinine monthly – if rises steadily, discuss with Vaidya to adjust dose.

Extra safe tips Drink 2–2.5 L water daily Low salt (<4 gm/day), low protein diet Avoid painkillers, outside food

These herbs are safe & helpful in proper Ayurvedic CKD treatment – thousands of patients improve with them. Don’t worry – give it 4–8 weeks & recheck reports.

Regards Dr Gursimran Jeet Singh MD Panchakarma

Both herbs are useful in kidney issues no harmful