Ask Ayurveda

/
/
/
Can essential oil skin lightening really make a difference for dark spots?
FREE! Just write your question
— get answers from Best Ayurvedic doctors
No chat. No calls. Just write your question and receive expert replies
1000+ doctors ONLINE
#1 Ayurveda Platform
Ask question for free
00H : 34M : 39S
background image
Click Here
background image
Skin and Hair Disorders
Question #21801
282 days ago
859

Can essential oil skin lightening really make a difference for dark spots? - #21801

Chloe

I am dealing with some stubborn dark spots on my face that just won’t go away, and I’ve heard that essential oil skin lightening can help with this. So, a few months ago, I decided to give it a shot after seeing some great feedback online. I've been using this blend of essential oils like tea tree and lemon oil with my moisturizer. Honestly, I kinda expected to see a miracle overnight (who doesn't?) but, well, it hasn't worked quite that fast nown. I've been consistent tho, applying it every night for the last eight weeks and while I sort of see some lightening, it’s not anything drastic ya know? I did also some research and found that certain essential oils claim to have skin lightening properties, but I’m starting to wonder if they actually work or if it’s just a marketing gimmick. I mean, I can't help but feel a bit skeptical. Sometimes I worry that I’m just wasting time and money on this whole essential oil skin lightening thing. Why do the reviews look so promising? Is everyone just hallucinating about how great their skin looks? I also read about how some oils can be irritating, and I have pretty sensitive skin too, so I’m not sure if I’m just making things worse... Also, like, is it normal for my skin to feel a bit dry after using them? I thought essential oils were supposed to be hydrating? I really want to stick with the natural route before resorting to harsh treatments or anything. Each morning, I look in the mirror and feel frustrated because I’m not seeing the changes I hoped for. Have any of you tried using essential oil skin lightening for dark spots? What worked for you? Seriously, I’d love to know if there are specific oils or methods that might actually show results. I mean, am I missing something in my routine? I've even tried to mix in some carrier oils like coconut, thinking it would help but still – nada. It’s like, how long should I actually wait before calling it quits? Thanks for any tips or experiences you can share! Oh! And are there particular essential oils I should totally avoid? Don’t want to be making things worse, right? I really hope there’s a light at the end of this dark spot tunnel.

PAID
Question is closed

Doctor-recommended remedies for this condition

FREE! Ask an Ayurvedic Doctor — 24/7, 100% Anonymous
Get expert answers anytime, completely confidential. No sign-up needed.
CTA image

Doctors' responses

essential oil skin lightening can improve the glow of the face, lightening effect can take place very slowly. Use besan+turmeric powder+chandan powder + milk mix and apply on dark spots keep for 10 minutes and then wash with clean water.

12742 answered questions
31% best answers
Accepted response

0 replies
Dr. Prasad Pentakota
I am Dr. P. Prasad, and I have accumulated over 20 years of experience working across multiple medical specialties, including General Medicine, Neurology, Dermatology, and Cardiology. Throughout my career, I have had the opportunity to diagnose and manage a wide range of health conditions, helping patients navigate both acute and chronic medical challenges. My exposure to these diverse fields has given me a comprehensive understanding of the human body and its interconnected systems. Whether it is managing general medical conditions, neurological disorders, skin diseases, or heart-related issues, I approach every case with careful attention to detail and evidence-based practices. I believe in providing accurate diagnosis, patient education, and treatment that is both effective and tailored to the individual’s specific needs. I place great emphasis on patient-centered care, where listening, understanding, and clear communication play a vital role. Over the years, I have seen how combining clinical knowledge with empathy can significantly improve treatment outcomes and patient satisfaction. With two decades of continuous learning and hands-on experience, I am committed to staying updated with the latest medical advancements and integrating them into my daily practice. My goal has always been to deliver high-quality, ethical, and compassionate medical care that addresses not just the illness but the overall well-being of my patients.
281 days ago
5

Oil skin lightening doesn’t improve dark spots

12974 answered questions
29% best answers

0 replies

Can try kumkumadi tailam- just a drop gentle massage over the spot area Over all you can make a face pack made of rice flour curd masoordal powder vit e capsule alovera gel and glycerine just a pinch of alum apply over face and wash after 20 mins

4210 answered questions
40% best answers

0 replies
Dr. Manjula
I am a dedicated Ayurveda practitioner with a deep-rooted passion for restoring health through traditional Ayurvedic principles. My clinical approach revolves around understanding the unique constitution (Prakruti) and current imbalance (Vikruti) of each individual. I conduct comprehensive consultations that include Prakruti-Vikruti Pareeksha, tongue examination, and other Ayurvedic diagnostic tools to identify the underlying causes of disease, rather than just addressing symptoms. My primary focus is on balancing the doshas—Vata, Pitta, and Kapha—through individualized treatment plans that include herbal medicines, therapeutic diets, and lifestyle modifications. I believe that healing begins with alignment, and I work closely with my patients to bring the body, mind, and spirit into harmony using personalized, constitution-based interventions. Whether managing chronic conditions or guiding preventive health, I aim to empower patients through Ayurvedic wisdom, offering not just relief but a sustainable path to well-being. My practice is rooted in authenticity, guided by classical Ayurvedic texts and a strong commitment to ethical, patient-centered care. I take pride in helping people achieve long-term health outcomes by integrating ancient knowledge with a modern, practical approach. Through continuous learning and close attention to every detail in diagnosis and treatment, I strive to deliver meaningful, natural, and effective results for all my patients.
250 days ago
5

It’s common to feel confused when natural treatments don’t give the instant outcomes we’re hoping for. However, essential oils can be part of an effective routine for lightening dark spots, when used sensibly within the frame of Ayurvedic principles. Here’s the scoop: essential oils like tea tree and lemon do hold some potential, but they’re not miracle workers, especially when it comes to persistent hyperpigmentation.

First, lets address your concern about irritation and dryness; lemon oil is potent and can indeed cause irritation, particularly for sensitve skin. It’s photosensitive too, meaning it can make your skin more susceptible to sun damage. If using lemon oil, be sure to apply sunscreen during the day and ideally, dilute it well with a carrier oil, such as coconut or jojoba. Tea tree oil, while excellent for acne, can be drying; perhaps swap or pair it with something more soothing, like rosehip oil, renowned for it’s regenerative properties.

In Ayurveda, skin issues often relate to imbalances in Pitta dosha. When there’s excess heat in the body, it can manifest as inflammation or pigmentation on the skin. Focus on a Pitta pacifying plan: avoid spicy, oily foods and introduce more cooling items like cucumbers, cilantro, and aloe vera juice.

Externally, turmeric is a fantastic option. Create a paste with turmeric powder and milk, gently apply on the affected areas, leave for 15 minutes then rinse. But note, turmeric can leave a temporary yellow stain on the skin, dab a small area first to see how your skin reacts.

Moreover, it’s pivotal to focus on a holistic skincare routine, including adequate hydration, gentle exfoliation (a homemade gram flour scrub with milk works wonders) and a consistent, gentle, nourishing approach. Amla powder, ingested or used as a mask, can also aid in reducing pigmentation due to its high vitamin C content.

You might want try these approaches for a few more weeks, but if dark spots persist, a dermatologist might help with more targeted treatments. Essential oils have their place, but often combined with broader strategies, they’re most effective. Always always listen to your skin, if it feels wrong or too irritatin’, ease-off, your skin’s balance shouldn’t be compromised for the hope of change.

10430 answered questions
28% best answers

0 replies
Speech bubble
FREE! Ask an Ayurvedic doctor — 24/7,
100% Anonymous

600+ certified Ayurvedic experts. No sign-up.

About our doctors

Only qualified ayurvedic doctors who have confirmed the availability of medical education and other certificates of medical practice consult on our service. You can check the qualification confirmation in the doctor's profile.


Related questions

Doctors online

Dr. Haresh Vavadiya
I am an Ayurvedic doctor currently practicing at Ayushakti Ayurveda—which honestly feels more like a learning ecosystem than just a clinic. Being here has changed the way I look at chronic conditions. You don’t just treat the label—you go after the cause, layer by layer, and that takes patience, structure, and real connection with the person sitting in front of you. Ayushakti has been around 33+ years, with global reach and seriously refined clinical systems. That means I get to work with protocols that are both deeply rooted in traditional Ayurveda and also super practical for today’s world. Whether I’m managing arthritis, asthma, skin issues like eczema or psoriasis, hormone trouble, gut problems, or stress overload—my first step is always a deep analysis. Prakriti, doshas, ahar-vihar, past treatments—everything gets mapped out. Once I’ve got that picture clear, I create a plan using herbal medicines, detox programs (especially Panchakarma), Marma therapy if needed, and definitely food and routine corrections. But nothing’s random. Each piece is chosen for *that* person. And I don’t just prescribe—I explain. Because when someone knows *why* they’re doing a certain thing, they stick with it longer, and the results hold. One thing I’ve learned while working here is how powerful Ayurved can be when it's structured right. At Ayushakti, that structure exists. It helps me treat confidently and track results properly. Whether I’m working with a first-time visitor or a patient who’s been dealing with the same thing for 10 years, my goal stays the same—help their system return to a natural, sustainable state of balance. What I really enjoy is seeing how people’s mindset changes once they start to feel better. When they stop depending on just temporary relief and start building their health from within—that’s when the real shift happens. And being part of that shift? That’s why I do this.
5
295 reviews
Dr. Aparna Kumari
I am someone who honestly grew a lot during my time at Choudhary Brahm Prakash Ayurved Charak Sansthan. Spent almost a full year working there—just one year, but felt like ten in terms of what I learned. The place is one of Asia's most respected Ayurvedic hospitals, and I got lucky getting that exposure so early. Worked under some seriously experienced doctors and expert faculty... like, they didn’t just teach, they lived Ayurveda, you know? Every day was full of clinical rounds, detailed case discussions, n watching complex therapies get carried out with this mix of tradition & precision. There’s something about learning in that kind of environment—it makes you rethink the way you observe even basic symptoms. I got to be involved in treatments for so many different conditions—digestive stuff, joint issues, skin disorders, neuro problems... and I’d say the biggest gain wasn’t just textbook learning, but knowing when not to rely on books. I picked up how to do proper Ayurvedic diagnosis using things like Nadi Pariksha, Prakriti analysis and real-time observation, which I know sounds obvious but trust me—doing it under pressure or with 5 patients waiting isn't the same as what you do during college viva. I messed up a few times, not gonna lie. But I was mentored closely and that helped a lot... Also learned how team-based care works in bigger institutions, which matters more than ppl admit. Sometimes your decision affects other therapists’ work or vice versa. All this helped shape how I now approach patient care—more aware, more grounded. Working there gave me this foundation I keep going back to, especially when I’m treating complex cases or making tough calls during Panchakarma planning. Looking back now, that year was short, but the learning curve—pretty steep and totally worth it.
0 reviews
Dr. Ravi Chandra Rushi
I am working right now as a Consultant Ayurvedic Ano-Rectal Surgeon at Bhrigu Maharishi Ayurvedic Hospital in Nalgonda—and yeah, that name’s quite something, but what really keeps me here is the kind of cases we get. My main focus is managing ano-rectal disorders like piles (Arsha), fistula-in-ano (Bhagandara), fissure-in-ano (Parikartika), pilonidal sinus, and rectal polyps. These are often more complex than they look at first, and they get misdiagnosed or overtreated in a lotta places. That’s where our classical tools come in—Ksharasutra therapy, Agnikarma, and a few other para-surgical techniques we follow from the Samhitas...they’ve been lifesavers honestly. My work here pushes me to keep refining surgical precision while also sticking to the Ayurvedic core. I do rely on modern diagnostics when needed, but I won’t replace the value of a well-done Nadi Pariksha or assessing dosha-vikruti in depth. Most of my patients come with pain, fear, and usually after a couple of rounds of either incomplete surgeries or just being fed painkillers n antibiotics. And I totally get that frustration. That’s why I combine surgery with a whole support plan—Ayurvedic meds, diet changes, lifestyle tweaks that actually match their prakriti. Not generic stuff off a handout. Over time, I’ve seen that when people follow the whole protocol, not just the procedure part, the recurrence drops a lot. I’m quite particular about follow-up and wound care too, ‘cause we’re dealing with delicate areas here and ignoring post-op can ruin outcomes. Oh and yeah—I care a lot about educating folks too. I talk to patients in OPD, sometimes give community talks, just to tell people they do have safer options than cutting everything out under GA! I still study Shalya Tantra like it’s a living document. I try to stay updated with whatever credible advancements are happening in Ayurvedic surgery, but I filter what’s fluff and what’s actually useful. At the end of the day, my aim is to offer respectful, outcome-based care that lets patients walk out without shame or fear. That’s really what keeps me grounded in this field.
5
1891 reviews
Dr. Jatin Kumar Sharma
I am a BAMS graduate and currently running my own clinic, where I see patients on a regular basis and try to give them honest, practical care. My daily work involves understanding different health concerns, listening properly to what the patient is going through, and then planning treatment in a way that actually fits their routine. I believe treatment should not feel confusing or rushed, and sometimes even small changes make a big difference. Running my own clinic has taught me a lot about responsibility and consistency. Some days are busy, some are slow, but every patient brings a different challenge and learning. I focus mainly on Ayurvedic treatment methods, lifestyle correction and long-term health balance, rather than quick fixes. There are times when progress takes longer, but I stay patient and keep working with the person step by step. I try to keep my approach simple, practical and honest. For me, real success is when a patient feels better in daily life, sleeps better, eats better and slowly regains balance. That is what keeps me going and improving every day.
5
104 reviews
Dr. Katariya Nutankumar Parshotambhai
I am focused on ayurvedic care for male and female infertility, and most of my clinical work has grown around this area over time. I work closely with couples and individuals who are struggling with reproductive health concerns, using classical Ayurveda principles along with practical, day-to-day treatment planning. My experience in infertility management is extensive, though every case still feels a little different, and I do stop and rethink when needed. I approach male infertility and female infertility as whole-body conditions, not isolated problems. In Ayurveda, digestion, hormones, stress patterns, and daily routine all matter, and I try to address these together rather than chasing one symptom only. Treatment plans are individualized, sometimes adjusted slowly, sometimes faster than expected, depending on how the body responds, which can be unpredictable at times.. Patient care for me is about listening first, then explaining clearly, even if it takes longer. I believe ayurvedic infertility treatment requires patience, from the patient and also from me, and I stay involved through each phase of care. Results dont follow a fixed timeline, and I am honest about that, even when it feels uncomfortable. I continue to rely on traditional ayurvedic understanding of reproductive health while keeping my clinical decisions grounded in real patient response, not theory alone! This balance matters to me, even when I question my own approach and refine it again.
0 reviews
Dr. Snehal Vidhate
I am Dr. Snehal Vidhate, born n brought up in Maharashtra—and honestly, for as long as I remember I’ve felt this pull towards Ayurveda. Not the fancy version ppl throw around, but the deep, real kind that actually helps ppl. I did my BAMS from YMT Ayurvedic Medical College in Kharghar. That’s where I got my basics strong—like really studied the shastras, understood prakriti, doshas, the whole deal. Not just crammed theory but started to see how it shows up in real lives. After finishing BAMS, I got into this one-year certificate course at Rashtriya Ayurveda Vidyapeeth, Delhi—honestly a turning point. I was super lucky to learn Kerala Ayurveda from my Guru, Prof. Dr. G.G. Gangadharan. He’s got this way of seeing things... simple but deep. That time with him taught me more than any textbook ever could. It kinda reshaped how I look at health, healing n how precise Ayurveda can be when you respect its roots. Right now I’m doing my MD in Panchakarma from SDM Ayurveda College, Bangalore. This place is like a hub for serious Ayurveda work. The Panchakarma training here? Super intense. We go deep into detoxification & rasayana therapy—not just theory again, but hands-on. I’m learning to blend classical techniques with today’s clinical demands.. like how to make Vamana or Basti actually doable in modern patient setups. My current practice is really about merging tradition with logic. Whether it’s chronic skin issues, gut problems, stress burnout or hormone stuff—my goal is to get to the root, not just hush the symptoms. I use Panchakarma when needed, but also a lot of ahara-vihara tweaks, medhya herbs, sometimes just slowing ppl down a bit helps. I really believe Ayurveda’s power is in its simplicity when done right. I don’t try to fix ppl—I work *with* them. And honestly, every patient teaches me something back.
5
584 reviews
Dr. Sara Garg
I am someone who believes Ayurveda isn’t just some old system — it’s alive, and actually still works when you use it the way it's meant to be used. My practice mostly revolves around proper Ayurvedic diagnosis (rogi & roga pariksha types), Panchakarma therapies, and ya also a lot of work with herbal medicine — not just prescribing but sometimes preparing stuff myself when needed. I really like that hands-on part actually, like knowing where the herbs came from and how they're processed... changes everything. One of the things I pay a lot of attention to is how a person's lifestyle is playing into their condition. Food, sleep, bowel habits, even small emotional patterns that people don't even realize are affecting their digestion or immunity — I look at all of it before jumping to treatment. Dietary therapy isn’t just telling people to eat less fried food lol. It’s more about timing, combinations, seasonal influence, and what suits their prakriti. That kind of detail takes time, and sometimes patients don’t get why it matters at first.. but slowly it clicks. Panchakarma — I do it when I feel it's needed. Doesn’t suit everyone all the time, but in the right case, it really clears the stuck layers. But again, it's not magic — people need to prep properly and follow instructions. That's where strong communication matters. I make it a point to explain everything without dumping too much Sanskrit unless they’re curious. I also try to keep things simple, like I don’t want patients feeling intimidated or overwhelmed with 10 things at once. We go step by step — sometimes slow, sometimes quick depending on the case. There’s no “one protocol fits all” in Ayurveda and frankly I get bored doing same thing again and again. Whether it’s a fever that won’t go or long-term fatigue or gut mess — I usually go deep into what's behind it. Surface-level fixes don’t last. I rather take the time than rush into wrong herbs. It’s more work, ya, but makes a diff in long run.
5
728 reviews
Dr. Batu
I am an Ayurvedic doctor trying to bring the old wisdom of chikitsa into daily life, even if sometime I feel I am still learning new things every single day.. I work mostly with the classical principles, the ones I studied again n agin during my training, and I try to see how they fit with each patient’s prakriti and the tiny details of their health story. I am often thinking how Ayurveda doesn’t rush anything, it asks for understanding of the roga and even the rogi in a deeper way, and I keep that in mind when someone walks in and tell me their concerns. Some cases are simple, some not really, but I do my best to look at the ahara, vihara, dosha pattern and even the habits they don’t notice at first. Sometimes I get a bit caught up in analysing too many factors at once, or typing notes too fas and mixing commas,, but at the core I focus on using authentic Ayurvedic approaches—herbal formulations, routine correction, panchkarma suggestions where needed—and I try to guide people gently without overwhelming them. I am also aware that many patients come with doubts or half-heard ideas about Ayurveda, and I try to clear those without sounding too “doctorly,” just explaining what makes sense for their body. I want them to feel they can trust the process, even if progress take time or feel slow on some days. I am still growing in this field, and every person who comes to me reminds me why I chose Ayurveda in the first place: clarity, balance, and healing that respects the person as a whole. There are moments where I wish I had more hours in a day to study more granthas or revise a chapter I skipped, but I stay committed to giving care that is genuine, thoughtful and rooted in traditional practice—even if the journey gets a bit messy here n there !!
0 reviews
Dr. Nayan Wale
I am working in medical field for total 7 years, out of which around 4 years was in hospital setup and 3 years in clinic practice. Hospital work gave me strong base, long duty hours, different type of cases, emergencies sometimes, and learning under pressure. Clinic work is different, slower but deeper, where I sit with patients, listen more, explain things again n again, and follow them over time. In hospital I handled day to day OPD cases, routine management, and also assisted seniors when things got complicated. That phase shaped my clinical thinking a lot, even now I sometimes catch myself thinking like hospital mode when a case looks serious. Clinic practice on the other hand taught me patience. Patients come with chronic issues, expectations, doubts, sometimes fear, and I had to adjust my approach accordingly. I focus on practical treatment planning, not just diagnosis on paper. Some days I feel I should have more time with each patient, but I try to balance it. My experience across hospital and clinic helps me understand both acute care and long term disease management. I still keep learning everyday, reading, observing patterns, correcting myself when needed, because medicine never stays same for long, and neither should the doctor.
5
10 reviews
Dr. Shaniba P
I am an Ayurvedic doctor, someone who’s pretty much built her clinical journey around natural healing, balance and yeah—just trying to help ppl feel a bit more whole again. I work mostly with conditions that kinda stay with people... like joint pain that won’t go away, periods all over the place, kids falling sick again n again, or just the kind of stress that messes up digestion n sleep n everything in between. A lot of my practice circles around arthritis, lower back pain, PCOD-ish symptoms, antenatal care, immunity problems in kids, and those quiet mental health imbalances ppl often don't talk much about. My approach isn’t just pulling herbs off a shelf and calling it a day. I spend time with classical diagnosis—checking Prakriti, figuring out doshas, seeing how much of this is physical and how much is coming from daily routine or emotional burnout. And treatments? Usually a mix of traditional Ayurvedic meds, Panchakarma (only if needed!!), changing food habits, tweaking the daily rhythm, and honestly... just slowing down sometimes. I’m also really into helping ppl understand themselves better—like once someone gets how their body is wired, things make more sense. I talk to patients about what actually suits their dosha, what throws them off balance, and how they can stop chasing quick fixes that don’t stick. Education's a big part of it. And yes, I’ve had patients walk in for constant cold and walk out realizing it’s more about weak agni n poor gut routines than just low immunity. Every case’s diff. Some are simple. Some not. But whether it’s a young woman trying to fix her cycles without hormones or a 6-year-old catching colds every week, I try building plans that last—not just short term relief stuff. Healing takes time and needs trust from both sides. End of the day, I try to keep it rooted—classical where it matters but flexible enough to blend with the world we're livin in rn. That balance is tricky, but worth it.
5
174 reviews
Dr. Sumit Doraya
I am Dr. Sumit Doraya, and honestly it’s been over 22 years now walking with Ayurveda—not just practicing it, but kinda living it every day. I'm the Director of SN Herbals and started Arogya Wellness Clinic with one simple thing in mind: give people real, root-level healing. No shortcuts, no masking symptoms. Just genuine care through classical Ayurvedic methods that work. I deal a lot with what we call lifestyle disorders—like people struggling with thyroid swings, PCOD issues, diabetes creeping up, and weight that just won’t shift no matter how clean they eat. These aren’t just medical cases to me—they’re people trying to make sense of their bodies in a hectic world, and Ayurveda actually gives us the tools to do that. I start by studying their prakriti, how their doshas are acting up, even things like daily routine and emotional patterns... All of that matters. Every plan is tailor-made with classical herbs, mindful diet guidance, and sometimes just a reminder to breathe deeper or sleep earlier, honestly. One thing I’m super invested in is child immunity. I offer Suvarna Prashan regularly—a beautiful ancient practice that supports kids’ immunity and brain growth. And I do see a lot of worried parents who come in for this especially before school season kicks off or monsoon hits. Another area I’ve really worked in is infertility—couples who’ve been trying for a while and just feel stuck. With proper Ayurvedic protocols focused on hormonal balance and reproductive strength, we’ve seen many get positive outcomes, naturally. Besides all that, I handle chronic digestion problems, constipation, acidity, skin troubles like psoriasis, acne, pigmentation... Sexual wellness too—those are delicate spaces where people don’t always open up easily, but Ayurveda gives gentle long-term solutions without harsh drugs or side effects. My clinic’s not a place for rushed prescriptions or one-size-fits-all fixes. It’s where you come, talk openly, get heard fully, and then start a treatment that makes sense for your body. I believe healing isn’t just about physical symptoms going away—it’s about feeling whole again. Balanced. Resilient. That’s what I try to help people reach—whatever stage of life they’re in.
5
9 reviews

Latest reviews

Quinn
1 hour ago
This advice was a game-changer for my morning fruit dilemmas! Super helpful breakdown; I feel way more confident about my choices now. Appreciate it!
This advice was a game-changer for my morning fruit dilemmas! Super helpful breakdown; I feel way more confident about my choices now. Appreciate it!
Ellie
6 hours ago
Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate you breaking it down so clearly. I'll give these tips a go and check back in a couple weeks.
Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate you breaking it down so clearly. I'll give these tips a go and check back in a couple weeks.
Paul
6 hours ago
Thank you, this is so helpful! Appreciate the clear list of remedies and lifestyle advice. Feels more manageable now.
Thank you, this is so helpful! Appreciate the clear list of remedies and lifestyle advice. Feels more manageable now.
Rachael
6 hours ago
Thanks for the great advice! Appreciated the clear plan for handling GERD with a Ayurvedic touch. Feeling hopeful this will help!
Thanks for the great advice! Appreciated the clear plan for handling GERD with a Ayurvedic touch. Feeling hopeful this will help!