Ask Ayurveda

FREE! Ask Ayurvedic Doctors 24/7

Get expert answers from certified doctors anytime

Fast responses
1000+ verified doctors
/
/
/
Vitiligo and lucoderma ayurvedic medicine with thyroid
Skin and Hair Disorders
Question #28197
262 days ago
1,003

Vitiligo and lucoderma ayurvedic medicine with thyroid - #28197

Monika
$3.51

Hi I have vitiligo and am taking ayurvedic medicine also but i see patches are growing continuously. How to put stop it from increasing I have hypothyroidism also and am not taking english medicine my tsh is 8 without medicine

Age: 37
Chronic illnesses: Vitiligo
Question is closed
Writing an explanation of your symptoms through Ayurveda...
Analyzing through Ayurvedic framework0%

Doctors' responses

For TSH raised values Start with Divya Thyrogrit 2-0-2 Aarogyavardhini 1-0-1 Kanchanar guggul 1-0-1 All after food with water For vitiligo Tay Tablet pigmento 2-0-2 Bakuchi oil on affected area twice daily expose to sunrays during sunrise and sunset time Do follow up after 45 days

13581 answered questions
30% best answers
Doctor has prepared a treatment plan for you
Amrita Arogyavardhini Tablets - Amrita Drugs
Amrita Kanchanar Guggulu Tablets - Amrita Drugs
Vyas Bakuchi Tail - Vyas Pharmaceuticals
+1 more medications
Accepted response

0 replies

Divya Kayakalpavati - 20 grams Divya Giloy Sat - 20 grams Divya Shuddha Vakuchi Churna - 50 grams Mix all the medicines and divide into 60 doses. Take each dose half-an-hour before breakfast and lunch with honey or water. Keshore Guggulu - Arogyavardhini Vati - Take 1 tablets from each in the morning and evening after meals with lukewarm water. Divya Mahamanjishtharishta - Mix 4 teaspoons of the medicine in 4 teaspoons of water and take it in the morning and evening Kayakalpa taila- ext application Avoid virudfha ahara

13597 answered questions
29% best answers
Doctor has prepared a treatment plan for you
Arogyavardhini Gutika Ras - Dabur
AVP Amrutharishtam - Arya Vaidya Pharmacy
Giloya Satwa - Baidyanath
+3 more medications
Accepted response

0 replies

HELLO MONIKA,

Vitiligo is an autoimmune condition where the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks melanocytes- cells that produce melanin, the pigment responsible for skin color, this results in white patches on the skin

COMMON CAUSES -genetics- family history - nutritional deficiencies-especially vitamin b12, D, copper, zinc - autoimmune disorders-thyroid issues - stress-emotional or physical trauma - skin injury or sunburn -chemical exposure

In Ayurveda vitiligo is referred to as shwitra(a type of kushta roga- skin disease), mainly caused by imbalance of the pitta dosha, combined with kapha and vata involvement.

PATHOGENESIS- viruddha ahara(incompatible food), excessive consumption of sour, salty, fermented food, or mental stress leads to accumulation of toxins(ama) and vitiation of blood and skin tissues.

INTERNALLY START WITH

1) SOMARAJI GHRITA- 2 tsp o emoty stomach with warm water/mik =detoxifies liver, promotes melanocyte regeneration , very effective in chronic cases.

2) RAS MANIKYA WITH GUDUCHI SATVA- 60mg + 1/2 tsp with honey =controls autoimmune response, improves skin tone

3) SWARNA MAKSHIK BHASMA- 125 mg with honey at night = helps improve liver function and immunity

4) CHITRAKADI VATI- 2 tabs after meals =improves digestion, reduces toxins, balances pitta

5) SHVITRAHARA LEHYA(FROM ARYA VAIDYA SALA, KOTTAKAL)- 1 tsp daily In morning = specific for vitiligo and leukoderma

6) MAHAMANJISTHADI KASHAYA- 20 ml with water twice daily after meals =useful in skin disease including eczema, vitiligo

can also go for panchakrma = virechana and raktamokshana at panchakarma clinic

EXTERNAL APPLICATION

1) BAKUCHI OIL- apply on affected area once a day -after applying expose to mild early morning sunlight 15 mins

2) KUMKUMADI TAILA- safe facial oil to improve skin tone =apply at night

DIET -eat black gram, green leafy veggies -amla, pomegrante, beetroot, carrot - whole grains, ghee

AVOID -curd, fish with milk, fermented foods, citrus fruits in excess -non vegetarian food, alcohol, smoking, processed foods -cold water bath and harsh cosmetics

STRESS MANAGEMENT -practice pranayam daily- anulom vilom, brahmari - meditation reduces cortisol and may help prevent progression - Can take brahmi vati- 1 tab at night for anxiety reduction

Vitiligo treatments take time. Ayurvedic therapies take 3-6 months or more to show visible improvement

DO FOLLOW CONSISTENTLY

THANK YOU

DR. HEMANSHU MEHTA

807 answered questions
29% best answers
Accepted response

0 replies

Avoid sour, fermented food and bakery products. Regular exercise and meditation. Leukoskin 20drops in a glass of water twice a day. Take morning sunlight after applying Leukoskin oint. Tab. Oxitard 2-0-2

13379 answered questions
39% best answers

0 replies

When it comes to vitiligo, coupled with hypothyroidism, an integrated Ayurvedic approach focusing on managing your doshas, particularly balancing Pitta and Vata, can be beneficial. First, consider dietary changes that aim to pacify Pitta, as it is often involved in skin disorders. Avoid foods that are sour, spicy, or fermented, as these can aggravate Pitta. Opt for a diet rich in cool, mild, and slightly sweet foods, like gourds, cucumber, and leafy greens. Also, limit your intake of alcohol, pickles, and excess salt.

For hypothyroidism, include foods high in natural iodine, like seaweed or iodized salt, in moderation. Consider adding Ashwagandha to your regimen. It’s known for supporting thyroid function. Taking about 500 mg daily can support hypothyroid management. Always consult your healthcare provider or a qualified Ayurvedic practitioner before starting any new herbs.

Practicing Pranayama and meditation reduces stress, which can worsen both vitiligo and thyroid imbalances. Daily, engage in 10-15 minutes of these practices. Yoga asanas such as Sarvangasana (shoulder stand) can be beneficial for thyroid health but should be done under supervision.

External applications like Babchi oil for vitiligo may be considered but should be applied cautiously, as it can cause burn if exposed to sunlight; use in the evening and wash off in the morning. Regular application can aid repigmentation.

Keep regular check-ups with your health professional, ensuring your thyroid function is monitored; TSH levels at 8 should be more closely managed to prevent worsening.

In Ayurveda, patience and persistence are key, given that therapies work to address the root cause over time. Remember to maintain a consistent routine and check any new approach with an authorized healthcare provider.

12744 answered questions
29% best answers

0 replies

HELLO MONIKA,

In Ayurveda, vitiligo is categorised as “SWITRA” or “KILASA” , which refers to skin discolouration caused by an imbalance of doshas, particularly pitta( governs heat, metabolism, and pigmentation ) and sometimes kapha(governs stability and moisture). The disease is considered tridoshaja ( involving all three doshas), but with pitta dominance because pitta controls melanin or pigmentation in the skin.

ROOT CAUSES -improper diet- e.g; milk with fish, sour+ milk- viruddha ahara - poor digestion- leads to toxin buildup - emotional stress- aggravates doshas and autoimmune response -long term use of harsh medicines - vitamin and mineral deficiencies(especially B12, D, COPPER)

TREATMENT GOAL -stop the spread -detox the body -stimulate pigmentation - support long term skin healing -prevent recurrence - stop new spots, re-pigment exist ones, restore confidence and skin health naturally

START INTERNALLY WITH

1) BAKUCHI CHURNA- 125 mg once daily slowly increase to 250 mg with honey or ghee in morning = stimulates melanocytes

2) KHADIRARISHTA- 20 ml with equal water after lunch and dinner = detoxifies blood, clears skin

3) AROGYAVARDHINI VATI- 1 tab twice daily after meals = improves liver and metabolism

4) MAHAMANJISTHADI KASHAYA- 15ml with water twice daily before meals = anti-inflammatory, blood cleanser

5) GUDUCHI TABELTS- 1 tab twice a day in morning and night = builds immunity, reduces autoimmune reaction

6) RASAMANIKYA- 65 mg with honey in morning = stimulate pigmentation(best one )

LOCAL APPLICATIONS

1) BAKUCHI TAILA+ GOMUTRA - apply directly on spots , sit in early morning sun-10 mins, then wash

2) MANJISTHA+ NEEM+ TURMERIC+ BAKUCHI CHURNA PASTE - make a paste with rose water or aloevera gel apply for 20 mins then rinse = helps purify skin and reduce spread

3) NEEM OIL + COCONUT OIL(50:50)- apply at night = soothes skin, reduces inflammation

DIETARY GUIDLINESS TO FOLLOW STRICTLY

AVOID -milk+ sour fruits like orange, lemon - milk+ salt or salty snacks - fish + milk -curd, panner- especially at night - fermented foods- bread, vinegar, pickles -junk food, chocolates, cola, chips

INCLUDE -FRUITS=apple, papaya, pomegranate, jamun, figs -VEGETABLES= pumpkin, ash gourd, spinach,carrots -PROTEINS= moong dal , tofu, soaked almonds, ghee -SUPERFOODS= amla, turmeric, black pepper, sesame seeds -BUTTERMILK

DRINK warm water, avoid ice cold drinks. cook fresh food. try to eat at the same time daily.

LIFESTYLE AND MIND MANAGEMENT

PRANAYAM -Anulom vilom= balances all doshas, calms stress -SHEETALI/ SHEETKARI- cools pitta, soothes mind -Bhramari- calms nervous system and skin

OTHER -sleep by 10 pm -morning sun exposure for 10-15 min - avoid exposure to chemical creams, fairness products - try trakata(candle gazing) to stabilise mind and reduce emotional triggers

HEALING TIMELINES

1-2 MONTHS= skin health improves, new spots stop 3-6 MONTHS= light re-pigmentation starts 6-12 MONTHS= visible color returns in patches

FOR HYPOTHYROIDISM -KANCHANAR GUGGULU= 2 tabs twice daily after meals (kindly start allopathic medicine side by side as it is necessary don’t ignore)

DO FOLLOW CONSISTENTLY TO GET RESULT

HOPE THIS MIGHT HELP YOU

WISH YOU A SPEEDY RECOVERY

THANK YOU

13072 answered questions
27% best answers

0 replies

When managing vitiligo with hypothyroidism, especially without conventional medicine, it’s crucial to integrate a balanced Ayurvedic approach focusing on both conditions. Vitiligo, in Ayurveda, is viewed as a condition related to imbalances in the doshas, particularly pitta and vata. Your thyroid issues suggest a potential kapha imbalance too, affecting metabolism.

Firstly, focus on a diet that pacifies these doshas. Avoid foods that aggravate pitta like spicy, oily, and salty items, and limit consumption of incompatible foods like milk with sour fruits. Hypothyroidism calls for minimizing kaphogenic items such as dairy, wheat, and sweets. Opt for fresh fruits, vegetables, particularly leafy greens, and whole grains that support all doshas, ensuring they are primarily cooked and warm, rather than raw and cold.

Herbal supplements could be a supportive adjunct. Bakuchi (Psoralea corylifolia) is commonly used for vitiligo management in the Siddha-Ayurvedic tradition, but it’s essential to use it under professional guidance, as it can be quite potent and must be tailored to your body’s constitution. Thyroid balancing herbs like Kanchanar Guggulu or Ashwagandha may also assist in regulating thyroid hormones, under supervision.

Daily practices such as Abhyanga, using oils like sesame or coconut, could help in maintaining skin health and balancing doshas by improving circulation. Also ensure you’re using sun protection, as areas affected by vitiligo can be sensitive to sunlight.

For both conditions, stress reduction is pivotal. Practices like yoga and pranayama can be effective in harmonizing your entire system, reducing stress-induced flare-ups, and enhancing overall immunity.

Despite preferring natural methods, it’s important to monitor your TSH levels regularly and collaborate with a healthcare provider. High TSH indicates it’s necessary to reevaluate and consider integrated treatment with both ayurvedic and potential allopathic interventions to avoid complications. Balancing both traditional and modern medicine with close guidance from experts is the most thorough way to manage your health effectively.

15294 answered questions
34% best answers

0 replies

In Ayurveda, Vitiligo (Shwitra/Kilasa) and thyroid disorders are viewed from a holistic perspective, addressing the underlying imbalances rather than just the symptoms.

Here is an overview of the Ayurvedic opinion on these conditions and their connection.

​Vitiligo (Shwitra/Kilasa) and Leukoderma ​Ayurvedic View: Ayurveda classifies vitiligo, referred to as Shwitra or Kilasa, as a skin disorder (Kushtha Roga). It is not considered contagious. The condition is believed to be caused by an imbalance of the three doshas—Vata, Pitta, and Kapha—with a particular emphasis on the vitiation of Pitta.
​Vitiated Doshas and Dhatus: The imbalance is thought to affect several key tissues (dhatus) and energy pathways (srotas), including:
​Rasa (plasma): Responsible for nourishment. ​Rakta (blood): Related to skin color and health.
​**Mamsa (muscle tissue): Affected by the disease process.
​Medas (fat tissue): The final stage of the disease, according to some texts. ​Causes: According to Ayurvedic texts, causes can be both physical and mental. They include:
​Incompatible food combinations (Viruddha Ahara): For example, consuming milk with fish. ​Mental stress: Chronic stress, anxiety, and grief are believed to vitiate the doshas, especially Pitta.
​Poor digestion (Agni): This can lead to the accumulation of toxins (Ama) in the body. ​Suppression of natural urges.

​Treatment Principles: The Ayurvedic approach to treating vitiligo is to address the root cause and restore balance. The treatment protocol typically includes:
​Shodhana (Detoxification): Panchakarma therapies like Virechana (purgation) and Vamana (emesis) are used to cleanse the body of accumulated toxins.
​Shamana (Palliative Treatment): This involves oral medicines to pacify the vitiated doshas and support skin health. ​Lepa & Taila (Topical Therapies): Application of herbal pastes and medicated oils to promote repigmentation.
​Dietary and Lifestyle Changes: This includes avoiding foods that aggravate Pitta, such as sour and spicy foods, and incorporating a Pitta-Vata balancing diet.
​Thyroid and Vitiligo: The Ayurvedic Connection ​From an Ayurvedic perspective, the connection between vitiligo and thyroid disorders can be understood through the lens of shared dosha imbalances and underlying systemic issues. ​Thyroid Disorders (Galaganda): While ancient Ayurvedic texts did not have a direct term for “thyroid gland” in the modern sense, thyroid-related symptoms, particularly goiter, are described under the term Galaganda. Thyroid disorders are generally seen as a result of a combination of Kapha and Vata vitiation, leading to an obstruction of channels. The accumulation of toxins and imbalances in Medas Dhatu (fat tissue) are also implicated. ​Common Root Cause: The autoimmune nature of both vitiligo and many thyroid disorders (like Hashimoto’s thyroiditis) is a key point of connection. Ayurveda views autoimmune conditions as a result of deep-seated imbalances where the body’s own defense mechanisms become misdirected, often due to a combination of genetic predisposition, environmental factors, and lifestyle choices that lead to Ama (toxin) accumulation and Dhatu (tissue) impairment. ​Ayurvedic Opinion on Co-occurrence: When vitiligo and thyroid issues co-exist, the Ayurvedic opinion is that the treatment must be comprehensive and address both conditions simultaneously. The practitioner would aim to: ​Identify the dominant dosha imbalance: While vitiligo is primarily Pitta-related, hypothyroidism is linked to Kapha and Vata. The practitioner would need to assess the individual’s unique constitution and the specific pattern of imbalances. ​Focus on detoxification: A thorough Panchakarma treatment to remove Ama and correct the flow in the srotas is considered crucial for both conditions. ​Strengthen the digestive fire (Agni): Improving metabolism and digestion is a priority to prevent further toxin formation and enhance nutrient absorption.

​Address mental and emotional factors: Since stress is considered a significant contributing factor to both conditions, yoga, pranayama (breathing exercises like Nadi Shodhana and Sheetali), and meditation are often recommended to calm the mind and balance the nervous system.
​ Treatment 1) Guduchi ghan vati - 1 tab after food 2 times 2) arogyavardhini vati -1 tab 3 times before food

3) kanchnar gugglu-1 tab before breakfast 4 bakuchi oil ext application

1365 answered questions
20% best answers

0 replies

About our doctors

Only qualified ayurvedic doctors who have confirmed the availability of medical education and other certificates of medical practice consult on our service. You can check the qualification confirmation in the doctor's profile.


How to promote advanced hair growth and prevent thinning hair naturally?
What to do for hair fall after moving to Himachal from Mumbai?
How to promote fast and healthy hair growth with mustard oil and rosemary?
How to reverse hair thinning caused by excessive scalp sweating in adults over 40?
Can I use Rakthachandani Thailam for my 7-year-old daughter's dark pigmentation around her mouth?
How to treat acne and remove pus marks on my face?
What is causing my skin to flake and shed on my arms, trunk, and back?
Can I use salicylic serum while taking Ayurvedic medicine for acne treatment?
Can I use salicylic acid serum while taking Ayurvedic medicine for acne treatment?
What causes yellowish skin and dark patches on my face with occasional rashes?
What is causing my hair loss after moving to Himachal from Bombay for the last 5-6 years?
How long will it take for eczema to improve with Mahamanjishtha and Khadirarishta syrup?
How to maintain hair thickness and reduce hair fall in thin crown area?
What to do for dull and combination skin that darkens with products and causes rashes?
Can I use salicylic serum while taking Ayurvedic medicine for acne treatment?
How to treat hair fall caused by hard water and stress after moving to Himachal?
How to treat hair fall caused by hard water and stress after moving to Himachal?
Why isn't Aloe Vera Chinesis recommended for skin care in Ayurveda?
How to promote faster and healthier hair growth using natural oils and remedies?
How to treat oily skin with dark spots and pimples, and can I use Multani Mitti?
How to treat nipple eczema in a 17-year-old with sensitive skin?
How to treat hair loss that started after moving to a new place and is affected by stress?
How to treat melasma on cheeks and nose that hasn't improved with allopathy for 3 months?
Can I take Mhasurdarsan Dhan Vati for skin allergy I've had for 8 years with small bumps and itching?
How to treat persistent fungal infection and oily dandruff on scalp?
What Ayurvedic treatment can help my 24-year-old daughter with her chronic skin redness and itching?
What Ayurvedic foods should I avoid for rosacea and what could bumps on my nails mean?
How to treat hair loss and graying in a 29-year-old male?
What is the best Ayurvedic treatment for pimples and dark spots on my cheeks?
Can I use aloe vera to treat Tinea Versicolor with irritating itchy skin that started 2 weeks ago?
Can I take Khadirarishta, Mahamanjishthadi, and Sarivadyasava syrups together for skin issues?
How to use Nalpamaram and Nagarmotha powder for acne on face and body?
How to treat worsening pimples and skin allergies while taking mahamajisthadii kwadha and khadirarishta?
Can I mix Kottakal Kunthalakanti oil with Rosemary oil for hair growth?
Can Ayurveda cure perioral dermatitis with sunscreen and remedies?
What is the best oil for thick, long, and black hair?
How to grow hair faster with low vitamin B12, D3, and iron levels?
Can lichen planus come back after treatment if I feel weak?
How to stop hair fall and improve gut health for a vegetarian?
How to use Ayurvedic herbal shampoo for hair loss after pregnancy?
How to treat skin eczema on my palms effectively?
How to treat excessive hair fall and dry, frizzy hair after applying oil?
What is the best Ayurvedic treatment for recurring ringworm on my leg and abdomen?
What is Lichen Amyloidosis and how to treat skin darkening and itching on my body?
Is Kairali Ayurveda Anu Thailam effective for controlling hair fall and how does it work?
How to eat Kayakalpa Kwat for clear skin and digestive issues?
What to do for deep acne scars that appeared suddenly at 27 after having acne as a teen?
How long will it take for LPP on my neck and face to heal on its own, and what precautions should I take?
How to treat excessive hair fall after pregnancy along with body pain and stress?
How often should I use durdurapathradi keratailam for dandruff and severe hair fall?
Can a 16-year-old girl with thin and weak hair take Sitaram Narasimha tablets, and how many should she take?
How to treat hair loss that started after moving to a new place and is affected by stress?
How to treat recurring foot corns on the soles that are painful and keep coming back?
How to treat facial hair inflammation and acne in a 21-year-old with regular periods?
Can I use hair oil and serum together, and is shampoo necessary after using oil before a shower?
How to make my hair grow faster after a recent haircut?
Is it safe to use soaked rice water on my hair after leaving it too long?
How to treat long-standing pimples on forehead for a 34-year-old male?
How to treat psoriasis on palms and soles with deep cracks and bleeding?
How to treat painful pimples on my face that keep coming back for 3 years at 18 years old?
How to treat painful pimples and hyperpigmentation on combination skin?
What are the small yellow bumps on my neck and around my eyes, and how to treat them?
Can I use Giloy Vati, Neem Vati, and other Ayurvedic remedies for my hand psoriasis with dry, itchy, and cracked skin?
How to treat high pigmentation around the neck and back with Mahamanjishthadi and Khadirisht?
What to do for recurring facial acne that keeps coming back for 3 years in an 18-year-old?
How to reduce skin tanning naturally with combination skin and comedones on nose?
How to treat psoriatic eczema on both legs with itching for 8 years using Ayurveda, including diet details?
How to treat severe itching from keratosis pilaris at night for a 22-year-old in a hostel?
Can I use Nalpamaradi Keram and Manjista Churna for my skin issues and what dosage is safe?
How to treat excessive hair fall and dryness with visible scalp?
How to treat pus-filled pimples that appear before my period after starting Mahamanjitha?
Why do I feel muscle cramps and fever-like symptoms after using coconut and almond oil for glowing skin?
How to reduce skin tanning naturally for combination skin with oily nose and dry cheeks?
How to treat psoriasis with Ayurvedic tablets after stopping allopathy?
How to treat fungal skin infections and itching in armpits and neck?
What is the natural remedy for rosacea and what should I avoid in my diet and daily habits?
What are the best remedies for hair fall and greying in a 43-year-old woman with anemia?
What is causing uneven skin tone and rough bumps on my arms that release white material?
How to treat dull, pigmented skin and dark circles effectively?
What causes uneven skin tone and excessive dryness on my upper body with on-and-off constipation?
How to treat chronic acne and irregular periods in a 24-year-old with oily skin?
What are some remedies for hair loss and gray hair?
What are the connections between skin problems and liver health?
How to choose between syrup, powder, or tablet forms of Khadirarishta, Mahamanjishtadi, and Trifala for skin issues?
Is Lomasathana Thailam good for skin, and should I mix it with carrier oil or apply it directly?
Is it safe to apply clove oil on burnt skin for relief?
How to treat oily skin on my face to prevent allergies and acne?
How to use Kesh King tablets for hair regrowth and is it safe for pregnant women?
How to choose between syrup, powder, or tablet forms of Khadirarishta, Mahamanjishtadi, and Triphala for skin issues?
How to treat pus-filled pimples and dark spots on my face?
What is the best Ayurvedic cream for all skin issues like eczema, bacterial and fungal infections, redness, and rashes?
What are the best Ayurvedic treatments for hair thinning and hair fall on the right side of my head?
What to do for hair fall caused by hard water and stress after moving to Himachal?
How to treat acne and blackheads that have been worsening for 4 years?
How to treat recurring dyshidrotic blisters on palms that worsen in summer?
What causes yellowish tint and dark patches on my face after taking multivitamins?
How to treat hormonal acne that appears before my period and causes dark marks?
How to prepare and apply Hasthi Danta Massi for hair growth effectively?
What is the best ointment for treating blackheads on my nose?
What is the best treatment for keratosis pilaris on elbows and butt that feels hard like thorns?

Doctors online

Latest reviews

Nora
6 hours ago
This answer really cleared things up for me. The advice feels spot on, and I appreciate the clear explanation. Thanks for the help!
This answer really cleared things up for me. The advice feels spot on, and I appreciate the clear explanation. Thanks for the help!
Kayden
10 hours ago
Thanks for breaking it down so clearly! I was worried, but your explanation really helped me understand what steps to take next. Appreciate it!
Thanks for breaking it down so clearly! I was worried, but your explanation really helped me understand what steps to take next. Appreciate it!
Paul
15 hours ago
Thanks! That was super helpful and clear. Your advice on what to try and avoid really resonated with me. Feeling more optimistic now!
Thanks! That was super helpful and clear. Your advice on what to try and avoid really resonated with me. Feeling more optimistic now!
Mateo
20 hours ago
Thanks a bunch! I found this answer super helpful - exactly the kind of practical advice I needed. Will def give those a try. 🌿
Thanks a bunch! I found this answer super helpful - exactly the kind of practical advice I needed. Will def give those a try. 🌿